This shit is ridiculous. I have many, many words. None of which are not pure rage and sadness.

“A young man who lost his eye with a rubber ball in a street protest, coincidentally meets the riot police who shot the ball in a dinner.”

Holy shit. This must be a thing that cops do on purpose, then.

That’s absolutely power.

Tldr: against a fascist, much, much more lawbreaking and potentially rebellion has to take place, not just protesting.

Idealizing the solution as simply protesting nonviolently is…naive. It’s a good start, but by absolutely no means the end goal.

It seems that BBC article doesn’t quite do more than correlation over history, and doesn’t touch so much on what it seems to largely point to, which is “civil disobedience”.

I felt compelled to define that term, so I looked into it, and the underlying theories and differing philosophies that seem to contrast each other.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

Civil, specifically nonviolent, Disobedience seems to be pointed at regulation and policy, rather than a fascist coup on the government. Read the Wikipedia article’s section on Theory. It’s complicated and seems to be excerpts of various authors and philosophers trying to define and correlate how to correctly apply morality over law to the goal of successful change.

Howard Zinn, notably does not condemn means of violence: rejects any “easy and righteous dismissal of violence”.

It’s not a map of political change, by any means, but I think blind adherence and blind condemnation without strategy is going to backfire in the long-run if it fails, which, even when nonviolence civil disobedience is applied to simple policy change (which this is not, it is violence from the bourgeoisie who have claimed all of the top political power positions in government) only has about a 50% success rate in history; if this movement fails and people place all their hopes on legal (civil disobedience is very clearly, overwhelmingly illegal, it’s in the name) and nonviolent protesting in large numbers, their spirits may be crushed.

I saw questionable picketing signs on Saturday, and the corrective level of commitment to what I believe to be bordering on revolution, is… There will be many who are awake and willing to do what is actually right, but there are also many who remain asleep with weak constitutions and who will face a terrifying and harsh reality.

I wish this weren’t the case, and I do believe protesting in massive numbers is the correct start for most people. But, escalation is almost all but ensured, and we must not naively be unprepared.

I’m just now getting back to respond to notifications on here. Do you think the june 14th no-kings protest was enough?

Also, what do we do once we have lots of people? Controlling optics to accumulate confidence and focused, actionable outrage into positivity is good. But what then? Because I’m worried about what team Trump is working on, now that his pp is more shriveled from his metaphorical birthday spanking.

Yooo… If that’s real, that’s really fucked up.

Second best thing is to just move away from him like an unbathed person on a hot day.

There are always options. He absolutely was an agitator.

Maybe everybody could have moved location, likely having to repeatedly do so over time, but then illustrating how maga is, at it’s very core, reactionary and pointless.

Maybe could have all changed signs to something really bad like “maga ducks children yeaaaahhhhh” so that when magas come by and try to take pictures of bigflag being dominant, there’s some cheeky bastards grinning and photobombing.

Mainly to op: Protesting and symbolism is very much a battle of wits, and you are never helpless and without option. Sometimes you just gotta take a deep breath, get creative, and outsmart the buggers. They vote for Trump, they really aren’t that smart. If you can outsmart a tantruming child, you can outsmart a maga.

But you also have to take into account the overall image/optics of the bigger situation: the goal is to show of force and support in order to grow the confidence of the people. So even though you worry that you may have lost your little local battle, it did not stain the day of overwhelming victory that Day 1 of no-kings protest. Bigflag may have momentarily pissed you off, and set his bigflag down in a way, but it is still such a small island that this little pissing match looks very similar to the big truck thing: overcompensation for a small penis turnout.

I’d laugh and know he’s a dickhead hostile, and not turn my back on him, because these guys can be actually immediately dangerous. But, let it roll off your back like orange sweat down Trump’s face when he sees how many people mobilized for the first major protest against him, on his birthday, despite his attempt at a show of military might, and despite his threats to try to detur people. Victory was had that day, and you did not get hurt and can go on to continue to fight for what’s right, stronger and wiser.

I hate to say it, but what about the optics on that (going up and burning the maga flags)?

It escalates things - bad

It gives them ammo - bad

It’s a threat they may not be used to - good

Empowers us - good

It is deliberate resistance, and leadership in that way through example - good

It’s kinda petty - bad

It’s funny as hell - good

I’m just not sure it’s worth it. I think the public moral high ground is the way to be, with the more terroristic methods occurring but being disavowed by the movement. That way you get to have your cake and eat it, too. And since there will always be those who choose violence and stuff, situational strategy awareness per-action seems highly relevant.

Basically, nuance is important and in this isolated situation I think moral high ground supports the main, already empowered and successful protest, and has a high risk, low reward.

In this situation, it’s not worth it, leave the loser alone in their push of shame. Maybe even feel good that you could’ve done it, but were even smarter AND BETTER than the magas and didn’t because you know it was wrong. Joking about it is also fine, but I think a better goal is to start working on seeing things in a more complete perspective, and promoting that nuance and bigger-picture consideration in others, too.

We will/should never be without our own personal feelings and situations, but right now, we are in an actually really important time, and are forced to think before action in order to seek success. Like the difference between driving recklessly and driving quickly - maximize efficiency and efficacy. We must win.

Edit: not disagreeing with you, either, but rather, thinking it through for any others who may pass through here. After all, it NEEDS to be talked about and isn’t discussed enough or deeply enough without fear. I’m curious if your thoughts align or you have any dissenting thoughts or considerations, or even feelings, as any and all of those must be addressed and discussed if we’re to come out of all of this better or worse.

Yeah compared to a grassroots risky protest against a militant wannabe dictator with the morning starting off with political murders by the opponent.

I saw all kinds of people protesting in the least likely areas. One image burned into my brain from Saturday was a solemn older couple, walking alone, she hunched over with a walker, him walking beside her, with a no kings sign and a billowing American flag in the sunlight. I was afraid to protest and almost started crying when I drove by.

I will NEVER forget that sight.

I mean if you make your country all about business, treat it like a business, elect a business person, pander to, etc…

Oh my god, we’re all slaves 😬

Lol so just to be clear: reverse luigi=magassassin? Or is that more like… the bourgeoisie healthcare ceos?

You know? Of I were a trump fan, this would be actually really funny and edgy.

<3

Yeah that sounds terrible and sad all around. Thanks for the details. There’s a lot to process and think about. Be safe.

chef’s kiss

Tyvm

Removed by mod

What was the shooting for? Was that guy confirmed to be the same shooter?

Wild times, regardless.

I’m sorry, what?

I’d bet it has more to do with optics and political strategy